Liveblogging the Nashville Presidential Debate
Tue, 10/07/2008 - 6:55pm
After last Thursday's vice presidential debate beat the first presidential debate in viewership by about 40%, it will be interesting to see how many people will be watching today's town-hall style debate. If you don't feel like watching, of course, you can follow along with us here at the Blue as we bring you the blow-by-blow.
EDIT: I'd give you a post-debate analysis, but I think Chuck Todd did a fine job of it himself.
8:00 CST: Tom Brokaw, the moderator for the night, lays out the ground rules and introduces the candidates. Town hall debate -- I'm excited! Maybe McCain will actually look at Obama this time.
Brokaw says many of the questions will deal with the economy and global economic issues. No surprise.
The first question -- they'll be coming from the audience as well as from emails -- is on how the crisis affects senior citizens and how to help them out the most.
Obama answers first, and is quick to go on message that the problem is due to the last eight years of failed economic policy. Bush wanted deregulation, etc. Now we have to have oversight and regulation -- he calls out AIG for the $400,000 junket they went on a week after they received a bailout, and says the money should be returned and those executives fired. And then, he says, we should focus on relief for the middle class.
8:06: McCain follows, saying that Americans are angry about the economic situation. No kidding! He also talks about the need for reform, both nationally and internationally, and housing reform -- he wants to buy up all the bad loans and renegotiate them at their current value, and absorb the hit. It is to be expected that he'd be moving toward the left and avoiding talking about his past economic mistakes since things have gotten so bad -- the question is, will he get called on the flip-flop? Not yet, apparently, as Brokaw went on pretty quickly to who McCain would choose to head the Treasury in his administration, since it's getting so much power.
McCain says it'd have to be someone who Americans instantly trust, and he cites the "Obama supporter" Warren Buffett (who I'm not really sure would take the job, sadly). Obama says that more important than the Treasury Secretary's policy is their policies, and the push towards less regulation that Republicans -- including McCain -- have been pushing for the past while has been what started the problem. He also notes that McCain talks a lot about how Obama wants to increase spending, but he wants to cut spending even more -- he's calling for a net cut in expenses.
8:12: McCain is asked how the bailout will help Americans. He mentions shoring up banks, but points the finger of blame for the problem at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac before saying that Obama took more money from Freddie and Fannie than all but one senator last cycle. Did he really open that door? He did, and Obama fires back -- first, he talks about helping Americans, and then he answers McCain's allegations by noting that the bill he keeps crowing about as "his" bill in 2005 wasn't even his -- he jumped on it a year after it was written, and that Obama never advocated for Freddie and Fannie -- but McCain's campaign manager did. "But you don't want to hear politicians bickering about politics" -- and back to how he plans to help the middle class. Yeah, that was almost too easy.
8:23: 3 priorities: health care, energy, and entitlement reform -- in what order will you address those priorities? McCain says you can work on all three at once. He then goes on to say that we have to, and that he "knows how" -- that's his message for the evening, it seems -- but doesn't say *how* he would do that at the brink of a recession. Talks about Obama and earmarks, and has a zing for some earmark for an expensive overhead projector. Really, nitpicking about a few thousand dollars when McCain wants to give oil companies a $4 billion tax cut seems a bit petty.
8:26: Obama says we're going to have to prioritize, just like families have to prioritize. Energy dependence is primary, and we have to and we will do it in ten years -- he evokes JFK and the march to the moon. Health care is next, because it hurts American families. And he says he wants to go line by line through the federal budget and remove waste.
8:29: McCain gets asked about sacrifices, and how we've asked our soldiers to give up their blood -- but what are the sacrifices that every American should be asked to make to restore the American dream?
McCain decidedly does *not* answer the question -- he talks about ending earmarks again and cutting spending, trying to hit Obama on that again. Obama actually answers, saying that after 9/11, Bush's call to "spend more money" was not what people were looking for and not what was needed. He talks about people conserving energy, buying fuel-efficient cars, etc.
A follow-up on cutting spending specifically lets Obama answer back on earmarks. Obama says he wants to do something about excessive earmarks, which make up $18 billion of the budget, but when McCain wants to pass a tax plan that cuts taxes of Fortune 500 CEOs by $700k, that's not sharing our burden, and that's not asking anyone but the middle class to pay. McCain's across-the-board freeze is the same, in that it hurts the middle class but doesn't affect the rich.
8:36: McCain, on that followup, goes on the offensive again -- says he has "news" for Obama, and "the news is bad" -- he talks about how he wants to cut taxes for everyone including the middle class, and that he wants to help the middle class by doubling the child exemption. I'm sure Obama will address that he wants to make the middle class' health savings plans taxable, and how that will offset the child exemption. McCain also says that a large number of small businesses would be hurt by Obama's tax hike. Huh? Obama gives him a querulous look.
When Obama gets to answer, he says that the "Straight Talk Express lost a wheel on that one." The vast majority of small business owners make less than $250,000 a year and wouldn't be taxed. The question is actually about whether we can save Social Security and Medicare in the next two years, and Obama says that he doesn't know that it can be done in the first two years but he wants to do it in his first term. McCain, answering, says "I'll answer the question" -- Obama *did* answer the question, Senator -- and then talks about how easy it is to fix Social Security without giving much detail, and even less on fixing Medicare.
8:43: How do we make Congress move fast on environmental issues? McCain starts talking about offshore drilling before getting to alternative energy issues. Obama talks about making an "investment" in alternative energy, as it's a national security issue. He notes that contrary to what McCain said, he does see nuclear energy as part of the solution. And then he zings McCain on how he is now talking about alternative energy, but we should -- as McCain says -- look at their records. McCain's been in on 26 votes for alternative energy, and has voted no on 23 of them.
8:48: Brokaw asks as the followup how we encourage that research spending. McCain, predictably, doesn't answer the question -- he talks again about offshore drilling, and tries to get another zing on Obama on a bill currently "loaded down with goodies for the oil industry" that Bush and Cheney wanted, and that he voted against and Obama voted for. (How does that compare to the $4 billion cut you want to give them, Senator McCain?) Brokaw, sadly, moves on to the next question.
8:50: The question is on health care and whether it should be treated as a commodity, and of course Obama's for universal health care -- he talks about his plan, and how you can keep your current insurance or buy into a plan similar to the one Congress has, at your option. And he says that McCain wants to give you a tax credit for health care, but what he doesn't tell you is that he'll tax your employer-provided health care plan, which will make you have to pay the $12,000 on average employers currently pay per person with your $5000 tax cut. McCain gets to stump on his health care plan, but it seems to me that Obama already gave the plan a working-over. And he doesn't answer the question, which Brokaw asks again -- is health care a privilege, right, or a responsibility? McCain answers that it's a responsibility, and Americans understand that. Obama says that it's a right. He talks about his grandmother that died of cancer in a hospital room as insurance companies argued with them about covering treatment. Calls out McCain for voting against the childrens' health care program. And says that it's important that government crack down on insurance companies that are not giving people what they promise. In McCain's plan where the states can make those decisions, businesses will simply move and set up shop where they don't have to meet more stringent requirements -- just like they do now in banking, with all the banks setting up shop in Delaware. Good call! I didn't think one could come up with a brief explanation of that, but the analogy did so very well.
9:00: Moving on to interventionism and how economic stress -- McCain talks us about being peacekeepers, and how we have to know when we can use the military to make a positive difference. Says his record was solid, and Obama has been wrong on the surge and on Georgia in his "short tenure" in the Senate.
Obama clearly was prepped for this question: he starts by talking about how McCain has talked in the prior debate as well as this one that he "doesn't understand." He then lays out how McCain was wrong on Iraq, and has been draining our economy to pay for his mistake. We can't afford the $10 billion a month we've been sending overseas. And that's money we need to do "all the nice things McCain says we should be doing, but hasn't said how he plans to pay for." I would've liked that answer to be stronger -- the "doesn't understand" attack is one I think Obama has to counter forcefully, and which he can do by pointing out in direct terms how grossly wrong McCain has been on the war.
9:06: Brokaw asks about the use of military resources for humanitarian crises, and Obama talks about having a moral obligation and requiring international support.
McCain takes the first little bit to talk about Iraq again, saying that if Obama had his way, we'd brought the forces back in defeat. He mentions again that using force requires judging when a positive difference can be made, and how he has a history of making those judgments and doing so well, citing his opposition to Reagan's sending troops into Lebanon.
9:08: The audience asks Obama if we should respect Pakistani national sovereignty and not pursue al Qaeda there. Obama starts by noting that clearly trying to pursue them Iraq isn't working -- segues to a counter of McCain's point by noting that the judgment that we would have a good effect in Iraq was mistaken, as now al Qaeda is a bigger threat than ever and we're not even in the right region to combat them. He repeats his prior statement that if we had positive assurance that bin Laden was there, and Pakistan was unable to help, we'd go in.
McCain talks about Pakistan being a valuable ally, and how Obama's being hasty. Brokaw tries to move on again, but Obama insists on answering -- good! He again points out that McCain keeps trying to paint him as "green," and himself as experienced, but McCain's the one that was singing "bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran" and talking about "annihilating" North Korea -- he's hardly the steady hand on international policy that he's trying to paint himself as now.
McCain insists on answering, and says that Obama's wrong, and he would be responsible in dealing with international policy, and Obama saying he would attack Pakistan (attack Pakistan? Claiming Obama said that is just plain false!) is irresponsible.
9:17: Brokaw asks for a quick followup on the recent events in Afghanistan. Obama says that some fundamental changes have to occur in how we're dealing with Afghanistan, and names some tactical changes that need to occur. McCain agrees that some need to be made, but that the fundamental thing is employing the same strategy that "Obama said wouldn't work and still won't admit has worked" in Iraq of holding and clearing. (Maybe he's not saying that it worked because it hasn't?)
Russia is next, and McCain says that Russia needs to understand that what they did is wrong, and we'll use leverage -- "economic, diplomatic, and others" -- to assure that. Others? What are others, exactly? That scares me just a little bit.
Obama says that McCain's wanting to give "moral support" to Georgia is fine, but we have to address all the ex-Soviet satellites and give them real support -- economic and infrastructure support. We have to be able to foresee problems, which is what we haven't been doing in the past eight years by Bush and McCain's rushing into Iraq. Finally -- energy will be key in that discussion.
9:23: Brokaw asks for a yes-or-no answer: Do you think Russia under Putin is an evil empire? Obama says they've been doing evil things, and they have to be addressed. McCain says that if he answers yes, it reignites the Cold War, and if he says no, it ignores their actions. Really, I'm not sure I get the purpose of the question.
9:26: Brokaw says we'll be trying for two more questions. The first: if Iran attacks Israel, would you commit troops to support it or wait for U.N. Security Council clearance?
McCain says that no, we wouldn't wait. He brings up his "league of democracies," and talks about Obama's wanting to talk to countries without preconditions.
Obama says we can't let Iran get a nuclear weapon, and we can't provide veto power to the U.N. when acting in our security interests. But it is very important to work to prevent getting into scenarios like that in the first place. Establish energy independence, establish successful economic sanctions (for example, Iran's oil imports due to their failing infrastructure), and involve diplomacy without ever taking military options off the table -- because when we ceased to talk to people, Iran and North Korea both built up huge nuclear material capabilities while we refused to talk.
9:31: Last question: What don't you know and how will you learn it? Obama says you should ask his wife, and then he goes back to his stump message of once again making possible the American dream.
McCain says "what I don't know is what all of us don't know: what's going to happen here at home and abroad." And he stumps on -- well, it sounds like he's shifting his closing stump, even, to one of hope and the American dream. Funny how everyone ends up gravitating to the one guy who has a solid message. And he makes the ask! He says that he asks that America give him the chance to make a difference. I suppose you have to do that when you're an underdog.
Aaaaand debate's over!

Game's over
By Lorenzo Sadun
Tue, 10/07/2008 - 11:28pm
The question for the first debate was "is Obama ready". The answer then was "yes, and so is McCain". The answer now is "what a silly question". Obama was so obviously well-prepared in two debates that McCain/Palin's attempts to paint him as a scary monster will just backfire.
Meanwhile, McCain was grumpy and annoying. That shouldn't matter in an election, but it does.
The net effect is that Obama added a point or so to his lead. Much more importantly, he nailed down a lot of his marginal support. Barring a huge international crisis that Obama botches, this election is over.
But keep working! Rick Noriega, Larry Joe Doherty and the rest of the Texas Democratic team need all the help we can give them.