Liveblogging the CNN California Democratic Presidential Debate

If Josh were writing this intro, it'd say something along the lines of, "Are you ready to rumbleeeeeeeeee?"

Tonight's Democratic candidate debate, starting in just a few minutes, will be the first time Clinton and Obama debate each other one-on-one. Will it be Democratic high fives right and left, or will the candidates be fighting to distinguish themselves from each other? Follow along on our liveblog and see for yourself, and give us your opinions in the comments. Debate too nerve-wracking for you? Well, join us afterward where we'll have a quick sum-up and analysis of what happened this evening.

EDIT:My analysis of the debate's been added. Let me know what you think!

7:00

Wolf Blitzer is in full MC mode starting this up. I think I wasn't the only one that thought there were at least a few prizefight analogies to be made here.

Candidates come out, crowd claps for the candidates, candidates clap for the crowd. I would have laughed and laughed if Clinton offered Obama a handshake. Sadly, no.

Wolf called this a "debate in the traditional sense." I sincerely hope so and sincerely doubt it at the same time. I can always hope!

OK, he says the rules are, there are no rules. 90-second opening statements, and then just keep your answers to a reasonable time or Wolf beats you with a cudgel. (I made that last part up.)

Obama starts by congratulating Edwards for his candidacy. He says that he believes one of the two people on the stage will win the presidency, and that he has been and will be friends with Hillary no matter how the race turns out. I wonder what that's in reference to? Still no handshake...

Says the distinction in the race isn't one of race or gender, but of past vs. present. There's the warning flag.

Hillary agrees as far as one of them being the next president, and then says that after one wins, they'll walk into the Oval Office and immediately be faced with problems. It's the experience angle, just like Obama took the change angle — the 90-second opening statements are supposed to be for stumps anyway, right? There is a slightly different feel to Clinton's, though. She brings back the "let's have a conversation" line from back when she announced her candidacy, and seems to go more with "I'm a problem-solver" than "I'm experienced." Interesting little change.

7:12

Clinton is first asked what she sees as the biggest policy difference between the two. After the obligatory comment that their differences pale to the differences with the Republicans, she states that she believes that universal healthcare is an absolute necessity. She also mentions help with the housing crisis and foreign policy changes, but it seems like she's again differentiating with Republicans. I doubt Obama will do the same.

Nope. Obama starts with health care, where they have possibly the most significant differences, and states his case that health care shouldn't be mandated, because if it's made affordable, people will be willing to buy it. He also states his being against an interest rate freeze for housing relief, because he states that could in the long term hurt those seeking to buy homes in the future.

He says the next difference is his belief that special interests have too much power in Washington, which is why he doesn't take federal lobbying money, and that he was against Iraq from the beginning.

Wolf notes that all the issues brought up will be covered at some point during the evening; they're starting with health care.

7:19

Obama is first asked about his plan and about how 15 million people would still be without health care. He states that everyone that wants health care could get it under his plan, and notes that children would still be guaranteed health insurance.

He gets into hairier ground when he mentions that mandates had been tried in Massachusetts and such, and the problem lies when some people still can't afford insurance — what do you do, he asks? Do you garnish their wages to make them meet the mandate?

He ignores the can of worms that opens up — namely, if not everyone can afford it, how is it universal in the first place?

Clinton totally catches him on it, turns out. After saying this has been the main cause of her public service (citing her work in her husband's presidency), she notes that including everyone leads to lower costs which makes it affordable for everyone, and any shortfalls in affordability are covered with other means to ensure it's never above a small percentage of someone's income.. She notes that the only reason not to mandate it would be because people think it might not be politically feasible. Ouch! Evokes Edwards on the mandate thing, too, winning some progressive cred points.

7:25

In passing the question back to Obama, Blitzer also notes that without the 10 or 15 million people that his plan would exclude, they'd end up going to emergency rooms and everyone would pay more. Another zinger.

Obama replies that having priced both his and Clinton's plans out, there are still points where it will be unaffordable. How that doesn't basically cut off your nose to spite your face, I don't know. He quickly shifts to stump messaging, saying that the reason that these plans haven't been passed is because we haven't brought Democrats and Republicans together to get this legislation passed against the will of special interests, and he can do that.

Clinton gets asked about the plan that failed back in '93; predictably, she doesn't stay on that long, noting other historical successes like the SCHIP bill. She then notes that there are strict regulations in her plan to rein in those special interests, how Medicare should be allowed to compete in the health care market, and other policy points. She wants to put deliberations on health care on C-SPAN, so on, so forth, and we can withstand the push from the health care industry if we do all this. I'll say this for Clinton, she's always been good about stating policy details.

7:31

Next question: all this requires raising some taxes. How do you avoid the label of "tax and spend Democrats?"

Obama notes that Republicans are hardly in a good position to be throwing around dirt on unrestrained spending or fiscal responsibility. He mentions that the tax cuts for the wealthy that Bush passed should never have happened, differentiating that from a tax increase, and that the bigger issue is not whether people gets taxed, but who's getting tax cuts and who's having to deal with the burden. He brings out the point again that the rich tend to pay less in taxes than their secretaries. There's a lot of agreement between the two candidates on that point, but he'll get some points for bringing it up first.

Clinton is asked, so you're making the rich pay for this? She says that the money from when the tax cuts that Bush passed for the wealthy expire would be put to the health plan, differentiating that from additional taxes. Obama notes that it's a pretty well-dressed crowd — they've panned to a few movie stars previously during the debate — and that we have a moral responsibility to ensure people's welfare. Clinton notes again that they're talking about returning tax levels to what they were before Bush, and that if she recalls, people were doing pretty well before Bush. Touche, Senator.

7:39

A submitted question, asking about the economic impact of illegal immigration on the African-American community. Obama nails that down — he calls out the poor economic decisions that have been made, by saying that blaming our economic ails on immigration is simply scapegoating. He brings up support for drivers' licenses for immigrants — I thought that didn't work out very well the first time around, but people probably have calmed down a little about that.

Clinton takes a different tack, and states that yes, illegal immigration allows employers to hire much cheaper labor, and that hurts wage levels for those jobs, and that there is a real effect on the economy there. She says that comprehensive immigration reform is what is needed; they should pay a fine for having entered illegally, learn English, etc. before things like drivers' licenses are on the table.

Obama speaks in response, more generally about immigration in positive terms, and not addressing anything specific in Clinton's reply, it seems. Wolf sees it that way too, and asks if he's saying that Clinton's plan is "inhumane," which Obama denies, and then asking that he's just trying to "figure out what he [Obama] means." Obama notes his work on the bill in the Senate. Wolf asks Clinton if she was AWOL on those deliberations in the Senate, and she notes that she actually co-sponsored the bill in 2004 before Obama was even in the Senate — applause for that; I guess the "experience" card pays off. She also steals a little thunder about "bringing people together," and how trying to knock on the doors of 12 million illegal immigrants is just unreasonable and we need to get realistic about dealing with immigration, which the Republicans aren't willing to do.

Wolf asks her why, if she's so passionate about the issue, doesn't she just support drivers' licenses? She says that, beyond it being something that would possibly be a personal risk to the cardholder, as a clear identifier that they were here illegally, it also detracts from the primary issue that needs to be dealt with first of comprehensive reform.

7:53

Obama then notes there's a clear difference in that he hasn't changed his mind on what he believes, referring to Clinton's confused answer when she supported Gov. Spitzer's New York proposal for drivers' licenses. That doesn't seem like a good idea... yup, Clinton beat me to the explanation. She notes that it's a difficult and complex question, and clearly so because they both weren't able to answer it — referring to how, in the debate immediately following Clinton's gaffe, Obama was posed the same question and had the same sort of confused vacillation on the issue. Applause, of course. That was a gimme.

And we have a break!

7:58

Next is the experience discussion: is Clinton better prepared to be president than Obama? Obama cites his experience as community organizer, up to his time in the Senate — stump points. This is stump material for both candidates; I expect to see the same from Clinton. Sure enough — she talks about how she's been working in public service for 35 years, and cites her experiences since then, including her time as First Lady in the Clinton White House and the responsibilities she was given with that. She stays away from the failed universal health care initiative, and points to the childrens' health care program that we're seeing the fruits of now, as well as increased regulations for safe drugs. She also cites recent work with Sen. Graham to get health care for veterans. The closing notes "real changes that have made a difference in people's lives." I have the funny feeling that's another attempt at differentiation there.

8:01

A submitted question, particularly germane if Mitt Romney's the opponent. Romney's stated that running the U.S. is like running a business, and Clinton and Obama have never run a business, so why should they be CEO of the United States? Clinton says that the U.S. government is not a business, it's a trust between the people and their elected officials, and that we currently have a president that's treated the government as just a business, and that hasn't worked out very well. Applause for Bush bashing. Obama notes that if Romney's trying to push his management creds, it seems like the money he's invested on his run at president has had a pretty bad return on investment. Zing! Nice one, Senator Obama! Not very good management skill on display there by Romney. Applause for the Romney bashing.

8:05

The next question's on endorsements, particularly Senator Kennedy's, and the effect they could have on the race. Clinton notes a number of other endorsements she's gotten, including from other Kennedy's, and talks about change and how having a woman in the White House would be a pretty dramatic change.

Obama gets to reply — this should be easy for him, as since he got the Kennedy endorsement, this question's basically a gimme for him — and he also takes his stump points on change and bringing America together.

Submitted question, from a 38-year-old that's never had the ability to vote on a presidential ticket that didn't have a Bush or a Clinton on it, so how can Clinton be an agent of change if she's part of the same families that have been on the tickets for the past 30 years? (I'm sure they meant 20.) Clinton spends some time noting how all of those haven't been the same, and highlights the many changes in Bill Clinton's eight years in office — the strong economy, environmental improvements, — ends with a great applause line, as she mentions the passing of the Clean Air Act last, and says that "it took a Clinton to clean up after the first Bush; I think it might take another to clean up after the second!" The crowd loves that one. We Democrats can get a whole lot of mileage out of Bush bashing.

And, we're on our second break!

8:16

OK, we're back, and we're talking Iraq. Clinton gets asked about her withdrawal plan, and how Obama has specified that he plans to have everyone out within 16 months, but she hasn't given a specific end date. Clinton mentions that she's said she'll start within 60 days, and withdraw one to two brigades a month, so they should all be out between the year, but that it has to be carefully planned and done in a responsible fashion. She gets some blows in on the Republicans by noting that they want troop levels to remain high for their presidency and have no actual plan to leave. When pressed by Blitzer about the 16 months number, she says she hopes so, and that she actually plans most to be out within the year.

Obama agrees that we should be as careful getting out as we were careful getting in. He notes the many similarities in his and Clinton's plans, specifically in the troops that would be left behind, and how both agree that troops should remain to protect the embassy and American civilians, as preparation to note the one major difference: that he doesn't believe that we should leave troops on the border to block Iranian involvement, and how if we didn't want Iranian involvement, we shouldn't have installed this goverment or, for that matter, invaded in the first place.

Wolf calls that a swipe at Clinton, and Clinton replies, "really? We're all having a good time here!" A little bit of diffusion of the media meme that they're cats-and-dogs against each other, which I'm happy to see. I was getting a little sick of that media insistence myself. She notes her endorsement from Rep. Maxine Waters, who was one of the original founders of the Out of Iraq caucus, and then puts forth the argument that regional stability is helped by preventing an increase in sectarianism that we've been seen and that would come from Iranian involvement.

8:24

Clinton is asked why she voted against requiring Bush to report to Congress before invading Iraq — the now-infamous authorization vote. She notes that there was strong agreement on the issue, and that she noted at the time that it was not an authorization of preemptive war, and that it was based on the intelligence at the time.

Obama gets asked more specifically about Petraeus' report and about the recent successes in Iraq. Clearly David Axelrod's heard my rants, because he finally says what I've been waiting for some Democrat to say about the "success" of the surge: we went from intolerable levels of violence and instability up to horrific levels of violence and instability in 2006, and then we had a surge and got back to "only" intolerable levels of violence and instability. He then notes again that he was always against the war.

Clinton is asked why, if she knows now that it was the wrong decision, doesn't she just apologize for the vote? Clinton states again that the vote was right for the time, and that nobody thought of it as an authorization, and that what nobody could have guessed at the time was Bush's obsession with entering into this war regardless of any evidence that we shouldn't.

Wolf asks if she's saying that she was naive in trusting Bush, which of course she quickly answers no to. Clinton notes that though Obama spoke against entering Iraq in '02, after he entered the Senate they've had the same voting history. She says that based on the intelligence given, there was reason to worry about Hussein, and that the problem was that she voted for sound policy, but that wasn't what the person that was supposed to execute that policy followed. This was actually very good; look for clips of it — it was the most detailed defense of her vote that we have yet heard from Clinton, and actually came across as pretty sound. I can't do it justice here, sadly

Obama notes that the bill had a title — "Authorization for the Use of Military Force" — and that it was clear that they were voting to go to war. In noting that he opposed it from the beginning, he says that the president doesn't just have to be ready from day one — he has to be right from day one. Point, Obama.

And we have what will probably be our last break of the evening.

8:42

These questions should have "brief" answers. Sure. First question, for Obama: lots of directors and actors in the crowds. Is there too much sex and violence coming out of Hollywood? He says that as a parent, he's concerned, but that the primary responsibility falls on the parent, and that we should give parents the tools they need to control that. He also says his biggest concern is not Hollywood, but the Internet. He also says there should be some concern from those in the industry as to who they're marketing to, which he does get applause for despite the audience.

Clinton gets asked about Bill, and if no one can control him during the campaign, how can they control him in the White House? Clinton gets a good laugh out of that. That's sort of understandable; I don't exactly see Bill trying to direct the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs while Hillary's in office or anything. She states that both she and Obama have passionate spouses that will defend them at every turn, to which Obama agrees.

OK, we have the applause line of the night. The next question, first for Obama, is phrased as, well, many people look at the two candidates on stage and see a dream ticket. Wild applause; the crowd loves it. Talk about the unspoken question. Though there have been some nasty exchanges here and there, would there be a possibility of an Clinton/Obama or Obama/Clinton ticket? Obama gives a very long dodge, basically, about how the administration works for the American people, and everyone in the administration needs to have that at the forefront of their mind. When pressed for an answer, he says that Clinton would be on anyone's short list. Clinton says she agrees with everything that Obama says, and adds that we'll definitely be a unified Democratic party coming out of the primary — applause — before putting in a plug for folks who didn't get their questions answered to go to her web site and attend an online national town hall meeting where they can answer their question. Wolf jokes that she can do the plugs on the campaign trail, but he's the one that does the plugs here, and the debate comes to an end.

And hey — there's the handshake! The candidates shake hands, and exchange friendly conversation — or at least conversation with smiles on their faces. Close enough, I'm sure.

Wow. I'd have to say that was the most enjoyable debate I've seen this cycle. The candidates did a great job of advancing their points and differentiating themselves from the other, while at the same time holding the fort of unified Democratic message. Obama did a great job of seizing some powerful talking points that hadn't been leveraged before, with the explanation of the surge "success" being simply back to more of the same and no success at all, and with the retort Romney's constant attacks against the Democrats for not knowing how to "run a business" by noting that his business savvy wasn't giving him much of a return on investment. Clinton solidified her stance on the Iraq military authorization vote with a detailed explanation that was still very accessible and made a good deal of sense, and on the whole gave insightful, detailed answers without erring towards the policy-wonky complexity that she sometimes has strayed toward.

So I know we always say the winner of these things is "the American people," but I almost feel like that's the case here. Or, at very least, the winner is the Democratic Party. And that's fine with me.